One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. 2. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. The knife does dull faster. D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. Thank you for the accurate data. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . 2. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). Manage Settings Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. Are you okay with that? how much more can you bend/pry with it? Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. There are a few other complicating factors such as carbon in solution and plate martensite, especially in low alloy steels such as described in this article. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. S90V Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. All rights reserved. Who looking for latest, high carbon, then the Kershaw Natrix Copper Pocketknife. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. i understand the samples were treated in the same way. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. . and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. XHP is an exceptionally well-balanced steel with excellent all-around attributes. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. No idea. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. Quite an eyeopener! So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. Around 61 Rc usually. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. 14C28N VS Steel. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. MagnaCut What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. What about K390? But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. I know it's much more stainless and corrosion resisitance, but what about wear resistance? BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. Fine-carbide knife steels. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. S35VN drop point While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. 2. I have a couple questions, not directly related to this specific post, that I wanted to ask publically so that others could find your responses as well, so here seemed as good a place as any. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. Read more. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. in relation to hardness). How do its properties compare to other steels? Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! While 14C28N and D2 are both pretty to look at, buyers always regard one over the other. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. All three of these steels havechromium, molybdenum, vanadium, and tungsten components and will perform well in myriad tasks. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. Interesting. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? There you said 7.6 for 420HC. (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. are after the ratings. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. Heres The Best Review For You (2021), D2 knife blade offers high edge retention, Dulls faster, Requires frequent sharpening. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. I just want to thank you for all the work you do for the community and the world at large. As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. Very much appreciate you. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. In all of the cases above, properties are greatly controlled by carbides. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. Alpha Knife Supply sells 26C3 btw. Cool! Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. Steels without these attributes are much less costly. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. Sorry about the misinformation. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. ), intended use will give you all the answers. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1 Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. I also added a few more steels in this study. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. Toughness and edge retention are generally opposing properties and it is difficult to improve both of them at the same time. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. n690 I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. Marco, BSc Chem. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. D2 is carbon steel that has high toughness and durability. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Another very tough and highly wear-resistant steel grade is the D2. But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. One is certainly anti-China bias, as you pointed out. Notice that with the same edges on the same media, the 9Cr18Mov from Real Steel performs about as well as the average Chinese D2. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel 440A has more chromium in solution along with a small addition of Mo, but has significant amounts of carbide so the two are an interesting comparison. The material increase machinability and strength. In some previous articles I have shown the balance between my toughness and edge retention measurements such as in the following chart, where the high alloy non-stainless are in orange and the blue are stainless: However, one issue with these charts are that difference in toughness is that a linear scale for toughness is a bit misleading for visualizing practical toughness differences. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. . These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. 12C27 at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Steel high in carbides cant be stamped out; it must be cut by a waterjet or laser, which takes time and is more expensive. The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. 440A And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. The difference in properties between 14C28N and D2 steel is very clear. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon.. . VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. Only a skilled blacksmith can make Damascus steels, so they tend to be expensive. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). Continue with Recommended Cookies. Is Vancron SuperClean a good choice for a chef knife? D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. They differ little in composition and treatment. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. Thanks for the Article Larrin, There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it. For more information see our. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. The sharpening makes the knives easy to maintain because they dull faster and require frequent sharpening. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Also, what kind of steel is used for utility knives? It applies to both of course, hence why there isnt a separate label. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Which one is right for you? Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. H2 In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/.

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